Fans of Jennifer Garvey Berger, Welcome to The Amiel Show!

Why you’ll enjoy this interview

As you know, Jennifer Garvey-Berger is a shining light in the fields of adult development and leadership.

I first heard of Jennifer when her book Changing on the Job appeared. Before finishing the first chapter, I thought to myself, “This is amazing.” And amazed I was that I had not heard of her until that moment. Because she has so much wisdom to offer all of us trying to rise to the challenge of complex change. Indeed, she has a wonderful capacity to describe one of the truly game-changing ideas in organizational life: the notion that after our bodies reach maturity, our minds can develop through multiple stages. Each stage gives us the capacity to handle greater complexity, yet also involves a loss of something we hold dear—namely, the way of seeing the world that up until now felt like “me.”

I was deeply honored that Jennifer accepted my invitation to an interview about her work.


In Episode 3 of The Amiel Show, Jennifer and I discuss:

  • The many ways we expect leaders to be both superhuman and supremely human
  • How awesome it is to have new capacities to look forward to as we get older
  • How learning about adult development makes us more compassionate and less judgmental toward others
  • The massive achievement of the Socialized Mind, when you first move beyond vast loneliness and self-centeredness and feel connected to others
  • How the Socialized Mind leaves you unprepared for many leadership situations
  • How much of emotional intelligence requires the Self-Authored Mind
  • The Self-Authored Mind, when you develop the code of your own life and realize that, no, people don’t “piss you off,” because you make your own emotions
  • How it can take decades for people to develop the Self-Authored Mind
  • The value of having a companion to help you deal with development’s uncertain gains and painful losses
  • The Self-Transforming Mind, when complexity and ambiguity become our natural playgrounds

Get a free preview of my book, Practice Greatness 

Just one thing before listening to the interview. I’d like to offer you a FREE preview of my book, Practice Greatness: Escape Small Thinking, Listen Like A Master, And Lead With Your Best. You’ll also receive a weekly email with my latest interviews, tips on holding powerful leadership conversations, and funny stories like the time I got my arm caught in a vending machine (yes, I was a kid then!)

Listen to the Podcast

Tweet a Quote

People say, “OK, now be self-directed” as if it were a switch you could flip.”

—Jennifer Garvey Berger    Tweet this quote

Explore Additional Resources

Jennifer Garvey Berger and Cultivating Leadership

Changing on the Job: Developing Leaders for a Complex World by Jennifer Garvey Berger

Carol Dweck

Adult development—key concepts (including the Socialized Mind, Self-Authored Mind, and Self-Transforming Mind)

Robert Kegan

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