Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps With Jennifer Garvey Berger (Episode 93)

Unlocking leadership mindtraps. Up for it?

I am.

Master difficult conversations

Learn my best tips for staying cool under pressure and elevating your leadership in complex times.


This week I’m excited to share another mind-stretching conversation with adult development expert Jennifer Garvey Berger.

We discuss her new, shorter, faster, and easier book Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps: How To Thrive In Complexity. Once again, Jennifer helps me unpack, unlock and uncover some of the biggest questions in the field of leadership development. Our intent, as always, is to find simplicity on the other side of complexity, a.k.a. grow a little bit today so we can grow even a little bit more tomorrow.

My favorite part is our discussion of what Jennifer calls “simple stories,” something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, particularly in the context of global climate change. (No, snow and cold temperatures don’t mean the overall temperature of the planet isn’t increasing. Yes, it makes a devilishly simple story. No, people who swear by this story are not bad people. Yes, you can learn to see them as heroes in their own story. No, your doing this won’t magically reduce carbon emissions. Yes, it’s still a healthy act for you and the rest of us. But I digress…)

Join me for this invigorating conversation.


  • 8:00 Jennifer gets asked, “How can I do this faster?”
  • 12:00 The five most dangerous and most escapable mindtraps
  • 17:00 “This is who I am. Don’t mess with me.”
  • 20:30 A simple story about Brexit involving bananas
  • 29:00 We soothe ourselves by knowing the odds
  • 34:00 Ask “How is this person [I’m aggravated by] a hero?”
  • 41:30 Jennifer plays a game with clients: let’s create three simple stories
  • 52:30 Simple stories Jennifer has told herself about her experiences with her kids
  • 1:02:00 Mindtraps in the transition from socialized mind to self-authored mind
  • 1:08:00 Simple stories about the amazing leader who must have been born that way

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