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Episode 42: Lisa Marshall On Exiting, Firing, and Burnout Nation [The Amiel Show]

Episode 42: Lisa Marshall On Exiting, Firing, and Burnout Nation [The Amiel Show]

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Sometimes it takes a wise voice unperturbed by convention to make us radically rethink everyday acts. Consider these questions:

  • How do you lay someone off?
  • How can you exit an organization gracefully?
  • What does it take to make meetings juicier?

Lisa Marshall wants you to consider these questions with greater maturity, clarity, and thoughtfulness. That way, in the very act of doing what you’re paid to do, you can grow into a leader others want to hire, partner with, and follow.

Listen in as this seasoned leadership coach and author breathes new life into old questions.

Lisa Photo 2

Highlights

  • 5:00  We still live in Burnout Nation
  • 13:30 Why Lisa insists on putting her coachee’s interests first
  • 16:15 Meaningless meetings vs environments rich in stories of helping customers
  • 22:30 Why the juiciest subjects belong at the start of meetings
  • 25:30 Body language tells you whether a “yes” is genuine
  • 32:30 How to tell someone they’ve been laid off
  • 38:00 Leaders hold the walls of the container
  • 49:30 How to leave an organization gracefully
  • 1:00:00 Saying “I’m sorry” before you leave the organization
  • 1:07:30 Why maturity matters
  • 1:11:30 Why Lisa gardens

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Any meeting without an agenda is almost by definition a waste of time.

–Lisa Marshall  Tweet this quote

‘Thank you’ and ‘I’m sorry’ are the two key elements of completion.

–Lisa Marshall  Tweet this quote

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Episode 41: Peter Block On Ambition, Authenticity, And Community [The Amiel Show]

Episode 41: Peter Block On Ambition, Authenticity, And Community [The Amiel Show]

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One of my favorites interviews of all time!

In the consulting field Peter Block is a giant. His book Flawless Consulting–now in its third edition–taught us how to show up in client relationships with authenticity, rigor, and an eye for potential pitfalls.

Peter also influenced a generation of managers with his book The Empowered Manager. Today, he brings his passion to building local community around people’s assets.

In this interview, Peter and I walk through the trajectory of his career–his earlier years as an ambitious internal consultant, the decision (unusual at the time) to start an external consultancy, how he learned to build relationships with others despite being a self-described “loner,” and the questions and commitments that have pulled him in and shifted how he works.

For a serious conversation about big ideas and a full life, this was a heck of a lot of fun.  Enjoy–and share widely!

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Highlights

  • 5:00 Getting into the field by accident & influence of Chris Argyris
  • 12:30 A loner finds connection in Gestalt and T-groups
  • 16:30 Early years of restless ambition and almost getting fired
  • 22:30 The risks of being authentic
  • 25:30 Influence of Werner Erhard, language, and speech acts
  • 31:30 The Philippines—working with citizens and loving it
  • 37:00 Taking two years off to raise kids
  • 42:00 Peter tells me, “You’re amazing. You frighten me.”
  • 47:30 Why focus on gifts rather than deficiencies
  • 50:30 John McKnight’s work on asset-base community development
  • 58:30 Contracting in place-based communities

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Authenticity–putting into words what you see happening–is risky.

–Peter Block   Tweet this quote

As soon as you acknowledge your gifts, you become accountable.

–Peter Block   Tweet this quote

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Episode 40: Nancy Berns On Moving Beyond “Closure” [The Amiel Show]

Episode 40: Nancy Berns On Moving Beyond “Closure” [The Amiel Show]

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Your best friend at work leaves for another job. Your spouse gets fired. The great team you’ve been part of gets split up. Chronic illness keeps you from doing things you enjoy. You experience the death of a sibling, parent, or child.

What do these things have in common?

They are examples of loss.

But that’s not all.

They are also situations in which our culture (in the United States at least) encourages us to “get closure.”

Getting closure makes sense, right?

Not so fast, says Dr. Nancy Berns, Professor of Sociology at Drake University and author of Closure: The Rush To End Grief And What It Costs Us.

The pressure to move past loss is harmful to our families, our emotional health, and our organizations.

And there is a better way to grieve–indeed, many better ways, each appropriate at different times to different people.

This week on the podcast, Dr. Berns talks about closure and what becomes possible when we choose other approaches for handling loss.

Nancy Berns beyond closure

Highlights

  • 13:00  Why closure became popular in the 1990s
  • 16:00  Rituals help us feel part of something bigger
  • 20:00  The experience of infant loss
  • 25:00  Conversations Nancy had about the loss of her son, Zachariah
  • 28:00  Knowing who you feel safe sharing with
  • 33:00  Small acts of kindness
  • 38:45  Society’s expectations of how men and women should grieve
  • 43:00  Being part of someone’s death or burial

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Closure is just a word we’ve made up. There’s no research showing that we need closure.

–Dr. Nancy Berns   Tweet this quote

When people hear the word ‘closure,’ they often hear, ‘You’re telling me I need to end my grieving.’

–Dr. Nancy Berns   Tweet this quote

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Episode 39: Elizabeth Doty On Making Only Promises You Can Keep [The Amiel Show]

Episode 39: Elizabeth Doty On Making Only Promises You Can Keep [The Amiel Show]

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Elizabeth Doty is on a mission to focus leaders on their most critical commitments. In Episode 39 of the podcast, this seasoned consultant, author, and frequent contributor to Strategy + Business joins me to ask:

  • What if we were to take our commitments to each other so seriously that we made only the ones we knew we could keep?
  • What if companies recognized that the reliability of their promises to customers and society was central to their success?
  • What if teams stopped waiting around for new leaders to define direction and instead said, “Here’s a proposal for the next three months. Can you support this?”

I think you’ll get great value from this invigorating, high impact conversation. Please share with your friends!

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Highlights

  • 5:00 “The company made me a liar.”
  • 7:20 When businesses drift from their promises
  • 13:30 Why scapegoating CEOs or “rogue employees” doesn’t improve outcomes
  • 16:30 Creating shared maps of different parts of the system
  • 18:00 The peril of new leaders ignoring existing commitments
  • 27:00 The measurable benefits of companies keeping commitments
  • 33:00 A “no harm” diamond company commits to a simple rule
  • 41:00 What teams can do during leadership changes instead of waiting for direction
  • 46:30 Why keeping your head down is risky
  • 48:00 The power of “irrational generosity” during downward spirals
  • 52:30 A hopeful story about promises, money, and career trajectories

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There is an art in crafting commitments and being clear what we’re committing to.

–Elizabeth Doty   Tweet this quote

A recipe for stalling: change your leaders often or put your strategy into question.

–Elizabeth Doty   Tweet this quote

Explore Additional Resources

Liberating structures, a concept introduced by Bill Torbert
Strategy maps—articles by Robert Kaplan and David Norton in Strategic Finance and HBR

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Episode 38: Dr. Keith Witt On Creating A Marital Love Affair [The Amiel Show]

Episode 38: Dr. Keith Witt On Creating A Marital Love Affair [The Amiel Show]

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For the past few years, I have identified a “personal hero of the year,” someone who has inspired me to be a wiser, more loving, and more courageous person. In 2015, my personal hero of the year was marriage expert Dr. Keith Witt.

Dr. Keith is an integral psychotherapist, author, big thinker, and “therapist in the wild.”

In this rich and entertaining interview, we talk about about creating marital love affairs, improving sex, and developing the skills of a self-regulating adult in relationship. Get ready for a very valuable hour!

Dr Keith Witt

Highlights

  • 5:00  How healthy marriages improve happiness, physical health, longevity, and children’s lives
  • 9:45 Why it’s not surprising that marriage becomes less passionate over time
  • 14:30 Why cheating on your spouse can seem to “appear out of nowhere”
  • 18:30 When commitment shifts to “I’ll do what it takes”
  • 20:00 Why some marriages get better after kids
  • 24:30 White knuckle monogamy
  • 29:00 Defensive states and the role of self-regulation skills
  • 37:30 The role of sex in mending relationships
  • 39:30 Getting in touch with you masculine and feminine core
  • 45:00 How your attachment style as an infant affects your adult relationships
  • 48:30 Using differentiation to improve sex
  • 50:00 Improving sex – different advice from five leading relationship experts
  • 56:00 Dr. Keith’s “two rules for guys” and “two rules for women”
  • 1:00:00 Makeup sex

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Couples are not taught about defensive states or how to self-regulate

–Dr. Keith Witt   Tweet this quote

 

The martial love affair requires conscious attention

–Dr. Keith Witt   Tweet this quote

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Episode 37: Susanne Cook-Greuter On Leadership Maturity, Part 2 [The Amiel Show]

Episode 37: Susanne Cook-Greuter On Leadership Maturity, Part 2 [The Amiel Show]

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In Part 1 of my interview with Dr. Susanne Cook-Greuter, she gave an overview of the stages of adult development and what they mean for our capacity to handle life’s complexity.

This week, in Part 2, we explore how her model of Leadership Maturity reframes two everyday leadership challenges:

  • How do you approach your job or career?
  • What is it like to be in a pivotal or difficult conversation?

Susanne pic

Highlights

  • 6:00 How three conventional stages of adult development (Socialized Self, Specialist Self, and Independent Self) experience work and career
  • 20:30 Why people at the Relative stage often step outside of the rat race
  • 27:00 At the Interdependent stage, you make sense of historical patterns and construct integrated strategies
  • 31:00 Susanne and I disagree about membership criteria for the Denial of Death club
  • 32:30 How development stages approach pivotal conversations differently
  • 34:00 Why someone may interpret even the most skillful feedback as disapproval of him
  • 44:00 Helping leaders at the Independent stage see how they are not fully responsible when something goes awry
  • 45:30 At the Relative stage, you realize what you can gain by understanding others’ perspectives
  • 48:00 Why Millennials may seek out difference as part of conforming to the emerging culture’s norms
  • 50:00 When paradox becomes the norm–and then the main source of juice

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The depth and capacity of what a person can notice can expand throughout life.

–Susanne Cook-Greuter  Tweet this quote

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Episode 36: Susanne Cook-Greuter On Leadership Maturity, Part 1 [The Amiel Show]

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Often when things go haywire, we blame others or ourselves.

  • “If only I was smarter.”
  • “If only my boss gave me the right responsibilities.”
  • “If only I picked a better boss.”

Susanne pic

What if the source of our troubles wasn’t something wrong with us–or others–but the fact that we haven’t yet developed to our full potential?

When I first came across this concept 15 years ago, I felt a breath of fresh air. What an amazing idea that as adults, we haven’t yet reached the end of the line.

This is the theory of adult development. You can’t look far in this field without running across the name Susanne Cook-Greuter. She is one of the world’s leading researchers, consultants, and coaches in adult development. In fact, many of the world’s leading experts in this area consider her their mentor.

Recently, I had the privilege of spending two hours with Susanne talking about how and why adults develop and what this means for leadership and organizations. This week, join me in enjoying part 1 of that conversation.

Highlights

  • 5:30 What Piaget taught us about child development
  • 13:00 Vertical development becomes mainstream
  • 16:30 The three waves of development: preconventional, conventional, and postconventional. See the chart we discuss here.
  • 24:00 The three stages where 80% of adults in the West live
  • 31:30 The impact of a CEO’s level of development on her organization
  • 33:00 Susanne’s advice for parents of teenagers
  • 43:30 What all adult development models have in common
  • 52:00 How stage models different outside of western culture

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At each developmental stage, there are capacities that weren’t imaginable before

–Susanne Cook-Greuter  Tweet this quote

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